Each month, we feature one coach and go deep into their philosophy, lived experience, and the work they are here to do in the world. No noise. No filler. Just a conversation worth your full attention.

On the shadow, the golden shadow, and the courage to shine imperfectly.
By Jonathan Carroll, Coach & Founder | The Coaches' Chronicle™
Every so often a conversation stays with you long after it ends. This was one of them, and I'm glad we captured it. If you would rather watch the full interview than read it, you can scroll down to the video below.
I have had the privilege of working alongside Xavier Dagba for a while now, and I can tell you that his backstory is as compelling as the work he does. Xavier is a shadow integration facilitator, a trauma-informed transformation guide, and the author of Scars of Gold, published in 2025 by Hay House. His work bridges Jungian psychology, somatic experiencing, spiritual wisdom, and transformational coaching, and it is devoted to a single idea he returns to again and again: self liberation.
What follows is our conversation, lightly edited for length and clarity. We move from the mechanics of shadow work into Xavier's own story, through the years he calls his shadow careers, and into the heart of his book. I have tried to keep his voice intact throughout, because it is the voice, as much as the wisdom, that makes his work land. My hope is that you hear it firsthand, the way our listeners did.
Jonathan Carroll: Before we get into your story, help us understand the heart of your work. When you describe yourself as a shadow integration facilitator devoted to self liberation, what does that actually mean, and what are you helping people do?
Xavier Dagba: There is a lot of lingo in that, so it is worth breaking down. The shadow is the part of us that we usually keep in the dark, the collection of the aspects of ourselves that we disown. It holds the feelings we don't want to feel, the pain we don't want to meet, the traits we don't want to embrace, and sometimes the gifts we don't want to fully live and share with the world because we're scared. Integration is about reclaiming our wholeness. I like to invite people to think of themselves as an ecosystem instead of a singular identity. You have so many distinct aspects within you, and sometimes we stay stuck because our journey requires that we reconcile with an aspect of ourselves that we don't want to reconcile with yet. Take someone invited to become a coach who doesn't like the idea of leadership. Life is going to say, okay, you're going to need to lead, and that means going into the shadow to bring forth the part of them that learned somewhere in childhood that leading was dangerous. So integration is reclaiming more of who we are so that we can live free. That's really the intention of my work.
Jonathan Carroll: You describe the shadow self as the dark face of your higher self, asking you to awaken. Can you unpack that for someone encountering shadow work for the first time?
Xavier Dagba: I get so much pushback when I describe it that way. When I first went into the universe of shadow work, there was so much fear in the writing, and so much of it read as occult, and I thought, this is not compelling. I had a mentor, Robert Masters, who unfortunately passed away this year. He wrote thirteen books, many around shadow work, and he always told me he was never able to make shadow work popular because people are afraid of it. And I kept thinking, this has been the single most liberating thing I've ever had to do. So I started looking for ways to demonstrate the benevolence of the shadow. If everything we navigate originates from one source, then seeing the shadow only as dangerous means I'm not seeing it fully. Every time you say I am ready to grow, I am ready to expand, you create a double activation. You're invited to rise and to descend all at once. The rise is embodying more of what makes you radiant. The descent is deepening your roots, going into your own soil to find the nutrients your elevation needs. Even in our years of repression and pain, I see the shadow as benevolent, because it holds what you don't yet know how to hold consciously so that you can function in a world that doesn't yet know how to receive your fullness. It says, give it to me, I'll hold it for you. And it's willing to be seen as the bad guy your whole life. That's how I arrived at the conclusion that the shadow must be the dark face of your higher self.
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Jonathan Carroll: It sounds like your sacred bestie, holding your deepest, darkest secrets until you're able to face them. This wasn't a question I prepared, but if the shadow is capable of dark things on anyone's behalf, what are we witnessing right now in the collective shadow?
Xavier Dagba: This is my interpretation of what the collective shadow would say: I need all of you, at the individual level, to reclaim your own capacity for evil. That's a big ask. Reclaim your capacity for darkness. See the wrongdoings people are doing and do not put yourself on a pedestal above them. Our knee-jerk reaction, especially for people who want to do good in the world, is to decide that a person doing something unconceivable is less than human, because then we don't belong with them. The shadow is saying, this is what you are capable of when you disown love, so own it. That capacity is alive and well within you. I don't believe every German during Nazi Germany was just evil scum of the earth. I believe we can live in an ecosystem that brings forth traits and beliefs that are profoundly damaging. So the shadow is saying, open your eyes, don't put yourself on a pedestal, because some of the most heinous crimes have been committed by people who believed they were doing the right thing. I believe some of that is happening right now.
Jonathan Carroll: Your approach bridges Jungian psychology, somatic experiencing, spiritual wisdom, and transformational coaching. How did those four streams come together for you, and what does each one contribute that the others can't?

Xavier Dagba: I built my approach by seeing what works and adding what I believed would close the gaps. My first training was transformational coaching, and my first program was a purpose accelerator, to support people in doing the work they came here to do. Then I realised, in my own story, that the biggest shifts came from my ability to address the repressed pain I hadn't dealt with. So there had to be an aspect of working with our trauma. Working with people with complex PTSD showed me how much complexity lives in there, how one fracture invites someone to reconcile with many fractured aspects of themselves.
That almost forced me into the language of Jung, the recognition that an entire ecosystem of parts lives inside us. That's the introduction to parts work and IFS. And the more you dig, the more you find that Jung had already created the body of work others built their modalities on top of. The somatic component is there because the body has to be the container of integration. A big part of the work is, can I stay in my body when a trigger flares up, when an emotion I was conditioned to repress comes up? If I say no, I can't be with this, I dissociate or repress. And especially with men, I found that when you build a bridge to the body and they feel how an emotion moves through them, even without full language for it, it leads them to transformation. So it was trial and error, and liberating myself from the shoulds of my initial training. The goal is transformation, not staying true to a method for its own sake. I like to see myself as a bit of a mad scientist, creating the recipe that works for the person in front of me.
Jonathan Carroll: You call self liberation your muse and integration the art. In practical terms, what does integration actually look like when someone is doing the work?
Xavier Dagba: Self liberation is the thing I'm infatuated with, being free, creating something meaningful to your heart and dissolving the blocks in the way. In my experience, trying to talk or pep-talk myself into a new way of thinking didn't work. Insight is great, but integration is what takes insight to embodiment. Let me make it less conceptual. When I became a dad, the insight was to be a calm parent. But what happens when your kid displays exactly the trait you were conditioned to repress, the one you thought you'd fully integrated? You see how you're possessed by the conditioning that repressed you growing up. The version of my mom or dad that worked to repress that trait is alive inside me. I'd done the inner-child work around the trait, but there was the other side of it, the part of me that wants to enforce the same conditioning, and that's the part I need to look at and learn to love, not banish into the shadow. So every time someone comes to me and says, I want to create this, the automatic question in my head is, what are the things this person needs to learn to love within themselves so they can more easily create what they say they want? That's why integration is the muse. The root is integer, coming whole, going back to the one. It's a work of integrity, not in the sense of honouring your values, but in the sense of wholeness, your capacity to return to the one. And that return is your access to power.
Jonathan Carroll: Take us back to the late 2000s, to the beginning of what you call your spiritual awakening. You've said the path found you rather than the other way around. What was actually happening in your life then?
Xavier Dagba: In the late 2000s I was looking for myself. I had my first degree, in mathematics, in 2010, training to be a math teacher, and I thought, I don't think this is it for me. Around then the movie The Secret came out, and teachers like Esther Hicks, and it spoke to something I'd already felt but couldn't put my finger on. I was born Catholic and still have an affinity for much of that, but I started exploring, finding Wayne Dyer, Louise Hay, Neale Donald Walsch's Conversations with God. I loved that rabbit hole and I kept diving. But that was my side thing, in the closet. Even when I started meditating, I knew these things could feel freaky to my family, so I didn't talk about it. I kept chasing a feeling of meaning, thinking maybe I just need another pursuit. I got into a master's in economics and statistics, and then a scholarship to Montreal for a PhD, which I accepted. And through that whole stretch, up to 2013 when I started the program, there was a nagging voice saying, deep down you know this is not it.
Jonathan Carroll: Walking away from a fully funded PhD is not a small decision. What was the moment you knew you had to leave, and how did you sit with that certainty when everything around you said stay?
Xavier Dagba: In 2014 I came to a second dark night. I couldn't drag myself to university. Maybe it was being in a different country by myself, no longer feeling the support or the societal pressure. It took me a year to convince myself to let go, and the reasons were heavy. I was being paid to study, which was a big one. And there was reputation: look at this guy, top of his class, given a golden opportunity, and he's going to blow it all. That was a shadow opening a door. In order to find your path, you have to let go of the path people think you should stay on. It was a complete identity destruction. I became the screw-up, the one people thought had been cursed, the one who didn't make sense to my family. I went from hero to zero in their eyes, and my pride was attached to it. I kept trying to positive-think my way out of it, and then came a call of shame that said, you're not going anywhere until you come and learn to love the things in yourself you've been conditioned to see as inadequate. In my family, school was salvation. The highest-paying job was salvation. I grew up in a country in crisis, watched my parents work themselves to the bone to send six kids to private school because they bet on us, and here I was being the bad example. That threw me right into the universe of the shadow. There were tiny moments of suicidal ideation, moments of seriously considering homelessness, a period of losing my student status when I couldn't afford the next visa. And I've always been driven to feel significant, to feel that my presence matters. So even that moment in the dump needed to matter. Show me how this matters became my prayer to God.
Jonathan Carroll: Between 2015 and 2018 you moved through what you call shadow careers, network marketing, fitness coaching, owning a gym. Looking back, what were those experiences preparing you for, and why were they shadow careers?

Xavier Dagba: A shadow career is a career that is very close to what your soul is asking you to do, close enough, but not quite it, the proxy that feels safest to go for. I knew I wanted to support people, but the thought of doing life coaching back then felt out of reach. I'd found people like Jim Rohn and Tony Robbins and thought, this guy gets paid to help people shift their mental states and create the lives they want, this is calling me. And then, who am I? A boy who just came from Cameroon, who three years earlier didn't even know what transformational coaching was. When you don't want to own something, your shadow has a way of making you consume your own light.
It shows you people embodying it, people you put on pedestals, and instead of emanating your light you consume it. That's the shadow saying, this is possible for you too, and I was in denial. So the closest thing I could do was health and fitness coaching. I could help people get fitter, so I did it, and I opened a gym. But my heart wasn't fully there. Sitting with clients, instead of the fitness and nutrition plans, we'd talk about how they felt, their inner states, what was happening in their lives. One client, Denise Jones, I'll never forget her, said, you are more my life coach than my fitness coach, and I am so grateful for it. When she said it, electricity ran through my body. In 2018 we closed the gym. I was this close to signing a lease for a new one, and I thought, no, I need to reinvent myself and really accept that. So the shadow careers were stepping stones. They taught me I had value to offer that I couldn't see back then, and they showed me I actually created real transformation with people. They built my confidence and my skills. Owning the gym made me lean into marketing. Network marketing made me talk about what I offer. I learned to sell a program I believed in, to design programs, running challenges like our fifteen-day Lean 15. A shadow career isn't negative. It's a stepping stone, close enough that you don't want to stay stuck there. Your life is leaving you clues.
Jonathan Carroll: You've made a striking claim, that in these times repressing our brightness has become harder on the nervous system than repressing our deepest pain. What led you to that conclusion?
Xavier Dagba: Personal experience. In 2016 I started developing strange asthma symptoms that made no sense, because I was the healthiest I'd ever been. That was around the time we got into business for the gym, and the whole time something in me was saying, this is not what I'm supposed to be doing, and I did not honour it. Those were years of profound negotiation with myself. I felt compelled to do something, but I was too scared, and I'd already made a fool of myself dropping the PhD, so this gym had to work. Reputation was on the line. The negotiation was so taxing on my system that it made me literally sicker. When I let go in 2018, my body returned to a state where I was no longer fighting myself. Your body is either the arena for war with your soul, or the arena where you work in harmony with it. I don't want my body to be where I fight my soul. Repressing your creativity, repressing divinely inspired ideas, is high-friction energy, and we hold it inside this ecosystem. Now, whenever my immune system drops, one of the first things I ask is, what inspired idea have I been fighting with that my body is telling me to stop resisting? I never want to go back to being in a fistfight with my soul.
Jonathan Carroll: After all the shadow careers and the surrender, how do you know now that you're finally doing the work you were meant to do? What does that certainty feel like for you?
Xavier Dagba: It feels like my body is no longer at war with my soul. Those fights with our purpose leave damage in us, and I've felt the difference in my own system and seen it in the people I coach. When I honour the inspired idea instead of negotiating it away, the friction dissolves. That harmony, more than any external marker, is how I know.
Jonathan Carroll: Much of your work centres on light workers and thought leaders who are holding themselves back from shining. What are the most common hidden forces you see keeping them stuck?
Xavier Dagba: This isn't a personal attack, we're in this together. I believe our virtuous addictions are one of the biggest things keeping us trapped. We love being aligned, we love feeling inspired, we love feeling certain, and we're living in some of the most uncertain times ever. That requires trailblazers more than before, and I see thought leaders and light workers as the ones who need to go first into uncharted land. One of those virtuous addictions is the addiction to purity. I've started using an archetype I call the Puritan. People in this line of work love the purity in the way they approach the altar, the way they pray, the way they do the breath work. We want to be so perfect that it takes the magic out of the whole thing, when so many paradigms need to be reinvented. One of the greatest skills we can develop is the ability to shine our light imperfectly. That's where our human self and our higher self reconcile, where we break the pedestal. There's a David Goggins line, who's going to carry the boats. Your human self is going to carry the boats, and by the boats I mean the consequences that come with shining your light. When you go out and express what's meaningful to you, your human self has to feel the fear of humiliation, of alienation, of not being understood. Light workers don't like to feel that, so we tell ourselves we'll show up once we trust we're perfectly aligned, and our human self asks, who's going to give you that certainty? If I were the devil, I would take the brightest lights in the world and convince them they must shine perfectly, because that's how I'd get them not to shine at all. What we need now is the messy light worker, the person willing to blast their light out, realise they went too hard or not hard enough, and recalibrate. These are the consciousness first responders. We need them out there, not to add to the noise but to disrupt it, to be the person who says, take a deep breath, drop your phone, go hug your kids. Take care of your mental health, yes, and still, can you shine your light imperfectly in a world trying to convince you that's not the way?
Jonathan Carroll: Surrendering to this work deepened your relationship with the divine and your own inner divinity. For people approaching this work without a spiritual or religious frame, how does that dimension show up? What can they look for?
Xavier Dagba: One important thing people can do is ask themselves what their relational status is with that word, God, or the divine. And it helps to detoxify that relationship, because so many people carry beliefs that have infected it. We're seeing two swings right now, some going hardcore new age, some going back to fundamentalism, and that's okay, do what brings you a sense of safety. But I also see an invitation to our own spiritual maturation, which looks like having fewer and fewer brokers between us and the divine, fewer gurus and priests in the middle. I'm not saying teachers aren't important, but there's an invitation to an inner ordination, the recognition that communing with the divine has always been available to everyone. So if your concept of God feels foreign, know that source doesn't need you to have a specific affiliation to commune with it. You can start right where you are. Speak to it, engage it, and get ready, because it will engage back. I like to invite people to ask directly: show me what it looks like for me to relate to you, at my current level of consciousness. Expect an answer, though it may not sound like a download in your head, it may come as clues through your journaling. I hope it doesn't sound religious, but I'd tell people, just talk to God. You've never needed a house of worship to do that. And when people want to dive into the shadow, I ask them, what is your concept of light, your concept of inner divinity? Ask that essence to work with you, to hover over you as you approach something that's tremendously scary. Let it be your anchor back to the light, because we can lose ourselves in the shadow when we touch deep sorrow, and it can take a minute to feel resourced again.
Jonathan Carroll: You talk about reclaiming authority and authorship of your path, and letting your light call the shots. What does that reclamation look like in someone's day-to-day life?
Xavier Dagba: Authority and authorship share the root 'author', the writer. Authority means I write the rules of the way I live, and that means liberating yourself from your conditioning, because if you're not free of it, the rules are just emanating from the conditioning, familial or spiritual. So authority is sitting down and getting clear on your intrinsic values, and letting those values be the rules for how you show up. It's defining your own code of honour, your own personal version of your ten commandments. Are they written by you, or are you subservient to someone else's way of life? Authorship is how you write the story through every choice you make. Letting your light call the shots is a challenging practice. When you connect, you receive a lot of inspired ideas, and the question is how often you let them run the way you show up. Take a coach who gets the inspired idea to raise their prices. Up comes, who am I to think I'm worth this much? That's a deep inadequacy the idea is inviting you to look at. You could fistfight the idea, or you could go down and meet the part of you that believes you could never charge that for something you created yourself. If it were another company's price, you'd state it with complete detachment. But when it's you putting a price on your own gift, it becomes, please don't reject my gift. So the invitation is to hold the price and the fear of the gift being rejected, and let both be okay. This is worth this, and it's completely okay for someone to say it's above their pay grade, without me internalising that my gift isn't good enough. Letting your light call the shots is choosing to become a disciple of your higher self and your shadow self at the same time. Each one presents what you need to embrace to expand. It's very practical, it's not just woo-woo language.
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Jonathan Carroll: You describe Scars of Gold as more than a book about illuminating the shadow, calling it a blueprint for reclaiming and unleashing the power the shadow has been guarding. What is that power, and why do you think so many people never claim it?

Xavier Dagba: I'm a fan of the golden shadow, the light we keep in the dark. Meeting the dark shadow, the pain and fears and disliked traits, is fantastic, and no one escapes it. But I love the journey of reclaiming the light, because we're scared to fully reclaim the gold in the dark. It could be your bigness that scares you, a gift you were conditioned to see as inadequate, a passion you disowned because you thought it would cost more than it gave. Embracing the golden shadow is cleansing it of the prejudice we put on it. An example. Early on I was part of a community run by a man, Kyle Cease, who'd been a successful comic and left it behind. He did an event for a few thousand people, arrived with nothing prepared, and said, we're going to let the now teach us. I came from an academic world of theses and slides, and part of me thought, this guy is talking out of his ass, and I was hooked, and angry that I was hooked, and receiving value from it.
That was envy, and envy mirrors, this is also where your light is. You have your own version of this inside you. Working with the golden shadow is looking at all the ways we project our light externally so we can reclaim it. We're masters at projecting the dark shadow, insisting the evil is out there, and we do the same with our light: this person can do it, I can't, they're so radiant, I could never. Everyone mad at billionaires is, deep down, sensing their own abundant nature externalised. At one point, working through money, I decided to bring every billionaire into my heart, even the ones I believed were the most evil, and look at their capacity to create abundance, just to reclaim my own version of it. It doesn't have to look like theirs, but I want to feel that essence in me. What I get most passionate about is helping someone see where they're projecting their light, and then hearing the shadow say, well, go build your version of it.
Jonathan Carroll: There's a powerful idea at the heart of Scars of Gold, that a freedom built on repressing parts of yourself isn't true liberation but a performance rooted in self-abandonment. How does someone begin to tell the difference between embodying wholeness and performing it?
Xavier Dagba: At the core of performing wholeness there's a form of avoidance, usually rooted in repressing whatever we believe wouldn't contribute to being perceived as whole. Some of my favourite questions to ask are, what don't you want to be, what do you hate to be seen as? People say, I don't like being seen as angry, or reactive, or fake. Then I ask, where do you show up precisely as that? If someone says nowhere, I tell them they're posturing, because if you're actually whole, you can't claim you never express a given trait. When my kids do something triggering and I show up calm while holding frustration inside, I am, in a sense, fake in that moment. I could dress it up as containing myself, but if I let the fire speak I'd show up differently. I choose not to let the kid feel that fire, because I want to build them, not shock them, so I take the fire and work with it another time. I'm still in touch with it, I still feel it. Sometimes we operate from a template of purity that isn't fully true. If you can't show me where a trait you disown has a place in your life right now, the wholeness you're presenting is performative to a degree. Because if you're really whole, every trait in the dictionary has room inside who you are. This work is humbling. Being seen as calm and equanimous is easy, but admitting the places where you also carry what you're not proud of, that's the real test, and it's not rooted in avoidance, it's rooted in radical ownership of everything, even the unholy. I love Pema Chodroen's work, just own your crap. Performative wholeness still disowns what's held in the shadow, there's a slight spiritual bypassing in it. Real wholeness is, I am capable of the darkest of the dark, and I'm also capable of some pretty cool things, and I want to own it all.
Jonathan Carroll: Final question. The vast majority of our subscribers are coaches. If you could give one piece of guiding advice to a new coach entering the industry today, what would it be?
Xavier Dagba: Dare to write outside the lines. I believe we're all coaches of liberation, whether you're a business coach teaching entrepreneurial liberation or a relational coach teaching people to feel more free in their connection. There's a unique flavour only your soul senses. Yes, have your training, have a method, it matters. But honour the guidance inside you, because sometimes two souls coming together will invite you somewhere outside the methodology you were taught, and when it feels appropriate, go there. Our industry isn't regulated the way clinical work is, and I'm not dismissing the value of structure, but give your intuition, your spiritual intelligence, a little more weight in how you facilitate. Put in the reps, hone your craft, trust your skill, and on the other side, trust the voice saying, today, just do this a little differently. And shine your light imperfectly. You're not trying to be Tony Robbins, you're trying to be you. In the age of AI, the people who show up authentically, with an open heart, are the ones who will be magnetic.
What stays with me from this conversation is Xavier's refusal to make the shadow the villain. In his telling it becomes something closer to a devoted friend, the one willing to carry what we can't yet hold and to be blamed for it, waiting patiently at the threshold of every expansion we say we want. That reframing alone is worth sitting with. It turns shadow work from something to survive into a relationship to build.
The other thread I keep returning to is his invitation to shine imperfectly. In an industry that can prize polish and purity, Xavier makes the case that our messiness is not the obstacle to the work but part of the offering, that the human self carrying the boats is exactly what makes the light usable. For the coaches reading this, that may be the most freeing permission of all. Put in the reps, honour your method, and then trust the voice inside you enough to write outside the lines.
Scars of Gold is available now from Hay House. You can find Xavier's workshops, community, and coaching offerings at xavierdagba.com.
Warmly,
Jonathan Carroll
Coach & Founder | The Coaches' Chronicle™
Jonathan Carroll is devoted to elevating the art and profession of coaching through depth, mastery, and conscious impact. As the Founder of The Coaches’ Chronicle, he curates conversations that invite reflection, integrity, and a more mature expression of leadership within the coaching industry.
Through his work as a coach, author, facilitator, and strategic partner, Jonathan supports conscious leaders who feel called into greater alignment, coherence, and purpose. His approach emphasizes presence over performance, wisdom over tactics, and the long view of meaningful, sustainable expansion.
Jonathan’s work is rooted in energetic alignment, intuitive leadership, and an ongoing exploration of infinite possibility. He is particularly drawn to the intersection of time honoured mysteries and modern day mastery, where inner development and real-world leadership meet.
He is also the founder of The Dragonfly Club™, a global community and experiential ecosystem offering private alliances and immersive retreats for visionary leaders at pivotal moments of evolution. Across all his work, Jonathan creates space for clarity, refinement, and a more grounded expression of what it means to lead in our modern world. Click on Jonathan's photo to connect with him on LinkedIn.
The Coaches' Chronicle is a monthly feature spotlighting one coach, one philosophy, and one meaningful conversation.